Discussion here at MBC of the lovely new castle at 45th/Highland took a surprising turn to a couple of downsides to Manhattan Beach. We were talking about the refinery, airplane flyovers, Massachusetts, and so forth.
Then someone asked a question that seemed poignant. To paraphrase: How did it happen that MB, and not Hermosa, became the dominant or "in" town around here?
Oh, there's no sense disputing it. The question is why things evolved this way. We'd like to hear your thoughts.
True story: Several years ago, your humble correspondent mentioned to an old family friend that we now lived in MB.
Response: Awkward silence, throat clearing, and a gently phrased, "Oh, do you like it there? Do you find it nice?" This was laden with the sort of bellyache and deep concern you might hear in response to "we've got a great new row house in a rapidly gentrifying hot new urban neighborhood. Don't worry, we have guns."
This person hadn't known MB since the '60s. A lot has changed, and the news hadn't yet hit everyone. (True follow-up story: Some time after, they visited, and we sent them to Mangiamo, and they drove all over town and later told us how blown away they were by how different MB was.)
By the time MBC landed here 10 yrs. ago, the transition was fully under way. First-ever rental house we looked at, the owner said, "The most common sound you'll hear in Manhattan Beach is a bulldozer."
But we digress.
Why MB and not HB?
MBC's first theory is that the initial zoning and development decisions for MB were better. (Better, not perfect.) Larger lots, more SFRs instead of MFRs. More walkstreets. More Hill Section – a nice signature. (The MB Historical Society has a couple of great books and nice pics if you want to look way back.)
Bonus: Refusing to provide adequate parking for out-of-town visitors probably enhances our town's value and cache for residents.
More recent bonus: Downtown has begun to flourish in the last few years, but even with Metlox and Shade and Towne, it's still pretty sleepy.
It's not MBC's style to diss Hermosa, but if you'll keep the comments clean, feel free, since this is a comparison.
Friday, September 28, 2007
Rhapsodize, Theorize: Why MB, not Hermosa?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
15 comments:
For me, one reason that jumps why MB and not HB is the schools. I have lived in the south bay all my life. Born in MB, but grew up in PV. As a kid, I did not think much of MB (or any of the beach cities - maybe a snob, but PV is insanely beautiful). As a young adult (years ago), I thought south redondo would be cool. Anyway, I bought in MB 11 years ago, because of the schools (starting a family). We considered moving a few times to PV, but it is just too far of a commute, and well, now MB is home and I can imaging leaving. Not to diss HB schools (which I believe are very good) but the perception (and perhaps realty) is that MB schools are better. At the time I bought, MB was already generally perceived as the cream of the beach cites.
Oh on my block of 19 homes (in the trees), since we bought our home, 5 have been torn down and larger homes built on the lots, another was 95% remodeled (by owner - an architect, very nicely done - added 2nd story). We also remodeled our home. My guess is only 7 or 8 of the 19 homes are the original homes. So yes, it is noisy - the bulldozers.
It's the fact that MB didn't create a "zona rosa" in the heart of its city the way HB did on Pier Ave. Recall the rapes and shootings in the strip of bars by the pier. The party scene draws a younger demographic to the city. Which means more people are renting... which makes gentrification more difficult. That's the question right? Why has MB been gentrified and not HB?
- Shortsale
When my husband bought his first home in MB almost 30 years ago, his realtor told him the schools here were the best, the lot sizes bigger and the chances of an apartment or condo going up next door far less, than in any of the other beach cities.
When we were looking for a new home together a little over 20 years ago, our realtor told us essentially the same thing. I don't think too much has changed; those are still the reasons the new neighbors we meet have choosen MB.
We are new to the Beach Cities and although there is lot of places more convenient to live commute wise we chose MB for the schools and lifestyle. We like the lifestyle here in MB but the same probably could be said for Hermosa (actually some parts of Hermosa has more visual interest and character for us). What swayed our decision was the fact that all the schools in MB are rated good in comparison to only some in Hermosa. We were not prepared to take the risk that the best school was full and we had to settle for a not so high ranking school. The question that comes to my mind is, if the school system is a determining factor and given the rising house prices what will the long term effect be on the MB schools? The current house prices makes it very difficult for young families to afford MB and without young blood it may have a long term detrimental effect on the school system.
It is the little differences. For instance, take the liqour store on 3200 Manhattan Ave. Surrounded by very nice homes in a good part of town the owner is allowed to put up huge blue and white signage that says Kegs, Wine, Cigars, etc. This is a microcosm of the issues around town. Pier Avenue is an obvious problem that was caused by short sightedness from a childish city council that was trying to hang on to their glory years. MB has been vigilant in keeping high standards among commercial buildings and plazas and it makes a difference. I also believe the large amount of rental properties have hurt Hermosa. The area attracts younger people who have been priced out of the buying market while MB attracts slightly older people who are more financially stable and usually looking to build a family. Those people are not going to pick up a mortgage next to a house that may be rented to 5 kids right out of college who party 4 nights a week.
Finally, the hill section and PCH area in HB is dominated by run down looking shops, smoke stores, and porn shops. I think the recent renovations in downtown Hermosa are positive signs of change and it would be great to see the long term residents and future residents take that city back from its' current state. HB needs to attract successful Gen X'ers to buy and not rent there.
Great question.. Two things stick out in my mind... for years Hermosa had fewer owner occupied homes then rentals.. at one point in the late 70's-early 80's most of those on the City council were renters. Also Hermosa had a reputation as a Biker town which scared away families.
Manhattan Beach really was smarter about zoning then either Hermosa or South Redondo. Also Hermosa has few large lots and most neighborhoods are mixed usage. The powers that be are trying to bring up the city image. It seems to be working as there are a lot of young hip buyers moving into the area.. including a number of the celebrities.
As for schools.. Hermosa has made big strides in academics and scores are in the 900's at both Hermosa View and Hermosa Valley. Hermosa students can choose either Mira Costa or Redondo Union when it comes to high school.
I think you will see values in Hermosa continue to improve.. there are Hermosa Strand homes that have sold between $8-$11 million.
>Also Hermosa had a reputation as a Biker town which scared away families.
I lived in Hermosa Beach in the 80's and that was definately true. I would occasionally visit FFF when it was on Hermosa Ave and it was not uncommon to see bikers. Later in the 90's I moved away from the South Bay but had occasion to visit occasionally and would of course visit my old haunts. I remember being pleasantly surprised that instead of bikers I now saw strollers!
The difference for me between HB and MB probably has to do with the density of the housing and what that entails. I think if I were a young person I still would prefer HB with the cheaper rents and college/party town atmosphere but as a family man MB's "bedroom community" living is more suitable.
Hey MBC - I'd rephrase the question to say, "Why has Manhattan Beach become the 'status' location, given that it's closer to LAX and the refinery than Hermosa Beach?"
True story: When I was part of a young couple looking to buy our first house we were choosing between a house in MB and a house in HB at about the same price. One of our good friends told us, "If you're on the fence, always choose MB. This zip code is gold." Good thing we got that advice way back then...
I'd say that it definitely comes down to the density and the zoning, with a little bit of the school factor mixed in (though Hermosa schools are nothing to sneeze at). With the possible exception of one small hill-type neighborhood in Hermosa, you really don't find anything equivalent in HB to the wide lots and leafy neighborhoods of MB's tree section, or the spacious feel of the hill section, or the wholesome charm of the south end sand section. HB seems like it would be a great place if you're a young beach/party enthusiast who didn't need a lot of space, but it's not what I/we were looking for in a place to settle down and raise kids.
Just one person's opinion...
as a recent homeowner who sold a house in venice to move here, i can echo what most folks have said so far. i can't compare what make manhattan beach more desirable 10 years ago, but for me, i chose to move to the southbay to get AWAY from all the college kids and partiers. my wife lived right next to the 3rd street promenade when she moved here. it was very convenient and kinda cool, but it was a huge hassle in many ways. after living here for only a month or so, i can attest that my quality of life is much greater here than it was in venice, despite buying a house only half as large as my venice house. there's just so much more peace of mind and the general environment is much more pleasant.
i don't think hermosa is quite up to venice levels for local "character" but it has that same vibe. the other main factors were schools and proximity to highways for a more convenient commute. while hermosa isn't much further, an extra 10 minutes a day times two adds up over time.
One other thing not mentioned - is the accessability the 105 fwy brought to the South Bay. MB/HB/RB became much more appealing to a whole new pool of buyers - financial professionals, attorneys, etc., with $$$ to spend on new homes, that wanted to get away from the congestion of downtown & the westside.
And on that note - MB's closer proximity to the freeway (405 & 105) vs. HB is a plus not to be overlooked. Moving to HB can add 10 minutes each way to one's commute. Just one more reason to love MB over HB (and South RB for that matter).
one thing that mb has and hermosa and redondo don't....freeway access.
Are the schools in MB that great? I have heard from several teen counselors that MCHS is rife with drugs and not just a little beer or pot, but Cocaine, Heroine and Oxy.. In in fact, I have been told that no matter what I else I do, to keep my kid out of there. Could it be that the combination of affluence and easy freeway access make for a greater chance for drugs to wind up in kid's hands? Maybe it is the Hermosa kids that choose MCHS over RUHS...
Drugs in MB just like in any affluent suburb. To deny it is to live in a bubble. Good school in MB? Debatable. My sister moved from MB to New Trier SD near Chicago. Her kids were so far behind after having been A students here. The 'good' schools mantra is more realtor sizzle than fact. Do your homework!
I've read through the comments and can't believe no one has hit on it. The real reason Manhattan Beach has higher prices is the topography. It's a straight up hill from the beach, so you get proximity and view for many blocks back in most of Manhattan Beach. That means the prices stay very high, due to view considerations, for many blocks back.
Hermosa on the other hand is flatter close to the beach, same is as the Avenues in Redondo.
This brings the average value, due to more homes with view, to a higher level.
I had to be anonymous because I can't remember my blogger password. But if you like my answer, I'll tell you who I am :)
If you ever want to know why Manhattan Beach prices are higher...just drive toward the beach on Marine, it takes your breath away when you start to see the ocean. And the ocean looks like it's halfway into the sky, unlike Hermosa.
Manhattan Beach, where the Ocean comes up to greet you! Take a walk around the hill section. The views from most corners is so great you want to pitch a tent and live on the pavement.
Views people...views. Some of the best in the world. You have to get up to PV to get views just as amazing, and then you get stuck up there with only one road to travel on and forever to the Freeway.
No "quality of life" or school consideration is ever going to change that.
Mira Costa is consistently ranked in the top 200 highshools in America by News Week. and thats out of PUBLIC AND PRIVATE!
Post a Comment