Last November, we noted the dearth of listings of South End flat walkstreet homes during MBC's first several months. (See "6th Street is Turning Over.") Just 4 such walkstreet homes had come on the market by then, and one was so overpriced (404 10th) that it never seemed to catch a nibble before the listing ended.
The only 2 South End walkstreet homes that sold between March-November 2007 were on 6th St. And then, all in the space of a week, 3 more homes on 6th St. came out. As we said at the time:
Walkstreet homes don't come on the market much. It's said that if you want one, you're going to need to be patient – there's a growing list of folks waiting to pounce.With the presumed pent-up demand for walkstreet homes, you had to like the chances for all 3 of those 6th St. listings to sell. But that is not what happened (as always, click any live address links to view pics & details of active listing via Redfin):
532 6th, a newer, modern home on Valley, came on at $2.7m but hung around just a couple of weeks before quitting;
- 528 6th (pictured), a newer, bigger modern home built at the same time as its neighbor, came on at $3.449m and has lingered since – 5 months, no price changes; and
- 408 6th has fared the best, and the worst – apparently getting two offers – but it's still around today, and has taken big reductions (more on that one shortly).
316 10th (pictured), an extreme modern home on the alley corner (at Crest), asking $3.999m and now 200+ DOM with no price cuts so far;
- 317 5th, a more moderate contemporary (circa 1993) of comparable size, also on the alley corner at Crest, priced competitively at $3.2m, just a week on market; and
- 341 10th, a warm, classy beach home remodel with a quirk: almost a quarter of its listed square footage (3150) is tied up in a rental unit – currently asking $3.195m after a month.
One of these homes is not like the others, and it's 408 6th. Of all the listings mentioned here, it's just 1 of 2 that are situated mid-block on flat walkstreets – potentially one of the best kinds of locations to enjoy the full walkstreet lifestyle.It's also not a newer home like the rest. 408 6th is a compromised remodel. The original build date is given as 1977, and that won't surprise anyone. The home has been tweaked and improved and modernized in parts – particularly the kitchen – but it's still chaotic and strange.
You get the sense that people have lived in the home and loved it, particularly the true "outdoor room" off the 1st-floor living room. But the layout is a real challenge. There are 2 dark bedrooms downstairs that face the walkstreet – behind a tall fence – where, by rights, there ought to be a living space that opens to the walkstreet. The master is a minor disaster, a dark, cramped space with a bath that cries out for updating (maybe ditching the horrid wallpaper would help).
In those heady days last year, 408 6th began at $2.625m, reflecting the idea that scarcity would command a higher price. The first $125k came off after less than a month. Twice, the property went into escrow at $2.495m. When it returned from the second (apparently failed) escrow in mid-February, another $150k came off, and it was at $2.340m.
This month, the property dropped first to $2.249m and then, quite suddenly, to $2.099m. (There was also a bogus re-list this week. Should we cut them some slack since they're now down 20%?!?)
Let's be honest, the property is now rapidly approaching lot value.
Down 6th St. a bit further, at the corner with Ingleside, you'll find a home under construction at 440 6th. That lot was offered publicly at $1.9m last July, and sold for more – $2.050m.
So, $2m for a livable home or a lot on a flat walkstreet seems reasonable these days. Just like $1m seemed reasonable when the current owners picked it up in Summer 2001 (for $1.050m).
Our prediction: The South End walkstreet drought ends soon. Tossup: 408 6th or 317 5th.
35 comments:
Thank you very much as always your work is much appreciated
all of these homes are east of highland -
is there anything anyone can point to west of highland
bottom line is that i feel safer with my kids walking to the beach alone if we live on the west side of highland if i didn't have kids i wouldnt insist on west of highland but must insist
east of highland, assuming you have even remotely-social kids is where you want to be. no cars. lots of play space. if i were you, i would take a better look at the 400 block. talk to a few parents there about crossing the street. it isn't pch/sepulveda.
My view is that if you have a family with young children and want to live on a walkstreet, the south end streets, east of Highland, are the best. The traffic on Highland and Manhattan Avenue is not an issue. The fact is, the kids won't be going to the beach by themselves until they over 10 anyway, so an adult will always be with them to cross the street. They will be spending most of their time on the walkstreet with the other kids on the block. Because the streets are flat, their toys don't roll down the hill and get crushed on Manhattan Avenue.
However, if you insist on west of Highland, check out 132 Second Street. A beautiful house for 6 mill.
I'm not sure that the previous owner of the 6th Street house was very "happy"....there is a reason why the house is sitting.
I agree w Anon 8:30a - there is more to the story (sad) of 408 6th as to why it fell out of the last escrow and may need to sell close to dirt value.
MBW - if you don't know you may want to make a call or two, that said if you were "ignoring the issue" I respect that too.
MBW Good story. I completely about agree 408 6th. Unless things go very badly, I believe it's approaching a point where a flip is looking attractive. Imagine putting 250k in cosmetics and adding another bathroom. Then throwing it back on for 2.6
If you know the background on 408 6th, then you know it should sell for lot value and be torn down. As for all the others, the only reason they are not selling is because the owners have all overpriced their homes (with the possible exception of 317 5th, which has only been on the market for one week). All the others are simply way overpriced relative to where the comps have been trading over the past several years. Of particular note, 528 6th sold for $2.99mm in 2006 and is now listed for $3.5mm. 316 10th is listed for $4mm, which is very high for any house in this location, much less a severe contemporary that needs a special type of buyer. The market for these locations will always be strong, but buyers aren't stupid and will do their research on the comps before buying.
Btw, does anyone know who the architect was for 528 6th? Despite it being close to Valley and overpriced, the design is very cool with lots of light and interesting lines.
Okay, I will bite. What is the "story."
The architect on 528 6th is Dean Nota – I'm fairly certain he designed the neighboring home too at 532.
Free advertising:
http://www.dnala.net/
Also here's an arch. site that features 528 6th:
http://tinyurl.com/4sdr9f
As to the issue/story with 408 6th, it's best left to rest; up to interested buyers to work it through. I am going to delete specific references if they come up unless and until the listing agent says otherwise. Thanks for understanding.
when well located, nice houses near lot value are shunned by the market, it's usually because there was violence on the property.
is that what happened at 408 6th?
10:40- Thanks for pointing those out. Everyone on this site seems to think the market is in a decline because of reducing list prices. When in fact homes are overpriced to begin with from 2006 levels. Case in point- 528 6th (a 17% markup). So now when the owner reduces 10%, everyone here thinks the sky is falling without knowing the real facts.
I'm not looking to buy having recently sold last fall. But if I were I'd expect flat or maybe slight appreciation from 2006 for that walk street home. Just my thought. Not to say it could sell for less than $2.99M a year for now.
10:59, you raise a question, but we're going to leave it at questions here. I will delete comments purporting to answer that question. It's a private issue of import only to actual interested buyers. Thanks again for understanding.
Thanks for the architect info, MBWatcher, and thanks for all the effort you put into this site. 11:04, I agree 528 should be flat, or maybe even slightly down since the location is really not that great and folks are picky about location these days. Still, the south end walkstreets are some of the best locations in the south bay, along with the two north hermosa walkstreets, 30th and 31st.
please explain why it's unacceptable to acknowledge what happened at 408? People know, and one would think that the agent has an obligation to disclose a fairly relevant issue that is in the public domain.
These are great houses. I wish that I could afford one. That said, I did not enjoy the South Manhattan Beach lifestyle when I owned down there. There are lots and lots of children living around there. Great, polite and nice children, mind you, but a whole bunch of them. Being single with grown children, I want a different type of beach. I think it is great area for families.
MBW - i am 9:29 above ("MBW - if you don't know you may want to make a call or two")
This issue is interesting as far as your reporting and editing. I too understand your struggle on 408 6th, but it is a significant subject negatively effecting "some peoples" valuation of the house, and therefore frankly making buying opportunity for others.
Reporting it won’t worsen the fact of the issue and it is pertinent to the homes value to many people (like flow, rooms, condition, size) and other issue that you do report on. I am not sure that anything on this blog should be left to be approved by the listing agent before being posted.
I am not saying it should be posted or not but right now you have some big choices to make and reasonably defend.
My last home that I had, the previous owner had committed suicide in the garage via carbon monoxide poisoning. This information was not disclosed to me when I bought. I found out later from neighbors.
Didn't really matter to me, but I was wondering if it should have been disclosed. It's my understanding that since criminal charges were never brought against the deceased, there was no crime that occurred at the residence. Therefore, there was no legal obligation by the seller to disclose that information. Is that correct?
OK. Did some research. In California, the Association of Realtors addresses the issue of death disclosure requirements. Civil Code §1710.2 states death on a property need not be disclosed if it occurred more than three years prior to the sale. The statute does require disclosure of a death more than three years old if the buyer asks.
No, I believe there is a line item on the standard disclosure form that asks whether a death has ever occured on the property. You should go back and check your documents....if they checked no on this item, you could sue.
Anon 1:23:
Sue for what? The pp said it was his previous home and he did not care. I assume if the event effected price when he sold he would have cared. The standard disclosure form has changed over the years, he may have bought his prior house 20 years ago, or even before the disclosure laws, who knows, but sue – I doubt
There was a recent suicide on a south end walk street home; but I don't believe it was at 408 6th. It was a very sad story that didn't get very much attention (and certainly NOT in the Beach Reporter). From the research I did on the walk street house with a very recent suicide, a realtor already "stole" the house and it never hit the MLS. Whatever the issue is with 408 6th should be disclosed not only to any potential buyers, but certainly in this blog. If someone is going to start censoring this blog, it'll be in the last time I visit the site.
Read this: http://www.topix.com/forum/city/manhattan-beach-ca/TCT5DD35D7QTSU7HQ
anon 10:37 and 2:44,
Actually, you are completely incorrect about one thing. Nothing needs to be disclosed to you and it is entirely inappropriate for it to be discussed on this blog. You people think you are somehow entitled to information, but any such disclosure is made by the seller to the offering buyer. It is a standard disclosure and it need not be shared with anyone other than the OFFERING buyer. 'Prospective" buyers, window shoppers or gossipers have no business asking questions or spreading rumors, true or untrue.
Mind your own F&%king business!
3:34 is right. It's a sad situation what happened at that home. I can't imagine how it's relevant here. There's many other websites out there if you want to read about that kind of thing. Let's try to be respectful to the family.
There are references in the last two comments to one made at 2:44, which was deleted. I am sure I could not have been clearer about the fact that I would not brook anyone purporting to disclose the issue. This was a promise I made to the family and I'll stand by that.
My position is closer to that of 3:42 with a good dose of 3:34 thrown in.
MBW - I respectfully disagree and think the issue on 6th does belong here as a market effecting factor -which is very much is.. Of course only as a market factor.
It IS a factor to SOME people is the purchase of this home. I do agree No one should be talking about this issue as gossip, but rather as a fact of home demand which equals market value which is what this site is about.
On this blog we talk about MANY such factors effecting value, some perceived, some real. This is a major perception issue for some/ most people.
By opening it up as a factor as to why the price is under market is justified on this blog and it should be for anyone showing and looking at this home.
My take on this is someone who is not effected by pure perception issue like this will get a great home at a below market price.
If you toured it prior to the relisting (not sure if it has changed) the owner design touch is absolutly wonderful.
5:31, before you should be allowed to "respectively" do anything on this website, you should:
1. Proofread your work for grammar;
2. Learn how to use spell-check or a dictionary;
3. Good God, man, use some correct punctuation;
4. Cease immediately, the random capitalization of full words;
5. Understand that after you publish a piece that is full of grammatical, spelling and punctuation errors, most people think you may be, at best a 5th grade graduate, living in a trailer, with 3 wives, in south-western Utah, or worse;
6. Please, please, oh Lord please, learn the proper usage of "effect" and "affect";
7. If you are human, and not some form of plant life blogging from another universe, please try to let some of your humanity seep through your intellectual incapacity and understand that, in this world, there are some things that are more important than money.
MBC is doing the right thing here. Go on to something else.
10:02p (from 5:31p)
I am thankful for the english lesson but that is not what this Board is about. It is about MB RE.
But since you brought it up - Now for your tech communications lesson, if were under 50 yr old you would know the foundation of communications like email, blogs and sms is not about communicating quickly and effieciently, not getting an "A" on your email or posting grammar. Just go ask your grandkids.
MBW - on 408 6th. I too believe that this board is about MB RE value and trends, both fact and as we all know opinions.
On 408 6th, you opened it up with your posting about the dramatic value change...without some context on the issue you do a dissrevice to the information.
Your posting said "In those heady days last year, 408 6th began at $2.625m, reflecting the idea that scarcity would command a higher price. The first $125k came off after less than a month. Twice, the property went into escrow at $2.495m. When it returned from the second (apparently failed) escrow in mid-February, another $150k came off, and it was at $2.340m.
This month, the property dropped first to $2.249m and then, quite suddenly, to $2.099m. (There was also a bogus re-list this week. Should we cut them some slack since they're now down 20%?!?)
Let's be honest, the property is now rapidly approaching lot value"
MBW your above posting without context is very misleading.
Isn't it plausible that MB Watcher didn't know the true issue with the house until after the post? And upon learning about the extenuating circumstances, decided to prohibit specific discussion surrounding it?
10:48a - The issue has been present for essentially all of 2008, so it's not context for the recent cut. And by the way, WTB has it right, I truly didn't know about the issue before writing. Either way, I don't think "misleading" is quite right.
We may need to revisit this matter after the property sells and closes and we determine the new owner's intent. If this winds up as an unusually low data point, a little context may be necessary. Meanwhile, I must say I think this discussion is played out.
10:02pm is right.
You still need to know how to communicate properly whether it be on a blog, sms or the "real" world.
Check your own response this morning, you'll see what I mean....
He or she gave you good advice.
MBW - Yes - you may not have known at the time of the post about the issue with 408 6th.
The issue was part of the last escrow failing and various price drops that MBW mentioned in the posting so to me the issue is context with regard to those drops and escrow break as well as to the overall current pricing.
Also "misleading" was not aimed at your intent but rather the data being misleading without the context.
Lastly, to go in the house is to see the great creative talent of the home owner.
10:48 In your last line you wrote:
"Lastly, to go in the house is to see the great creative talent of the home owner."
I'm hoping that you are being sincere and you're not mocking the owner of the house where the tragedy occurred. Please clarify.
5:03p (this is 10:48 / 4:41)
I am being very Sincere. When we (wife & I) went through the home the first time it was listed we loved what the homeowner had done, her art, the use of spaces indoors and out and the incredible sense of style created out of the original home.
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